Monday, June 29, 2009

Incentives vs. Virtue

Jason sent me this article on the financial incentivizing of today's youth:

Across the country, school systems are paying children to do better in school. In New York, fourth and seventh graders can get up to $500 for improving their scores on the city’s math and English tests. Schools in Georgia pay eighth and 11th graders $8 an hour to attend an after-school learning program.

...“Incentives” include iPods for attending Saturday study sessions and a flat-screen television for making the all “A” honor roll.

... Greensboro, North Carolina, is paying teenage mothers $1 for every day they are not pregnant.


I wholeheartedly agree with the author's conclusion:

It doesn’t surprise me that these “nudges” can have a short-term positive effect. But it’s difficult to imagine these programs making a long-term difference.

On the contrary, the “long term damage” mentioned earlier may very well include creating a generation of people for whom incentives will become a necessity, not a nudge.

To put it in Christian terms, incentives will replace virtue. Instead of doing the right or prudent thing because it’s what a moral person does, people will do what they do because they get something out of it. This doesn’t build character—it builds calculators.

What’s more, in the real world, people don’t always reward you for doing the right thing. But there are still consequences for behaving foolishly. How will people raised on a steady diet of nudges avoid these pitfalls?

The answer is that many won’t avoid them because they never learned that, for the virtuous person, doing the right thing is incentive enough.


Financial incentives are analogous to firearms in the sense that just because they work, and can often be means to a desired end, doesn't mean they should be used as a universal policy tool. Unfortunately, behavioral economics is seen by politicians as a powerful new AA-12, and they want to "solve" every problem they see by riddling it to death with financial incentives. The problem with an "incentives make right" approach, much as with "might makes right," is that the benefit is often short lasting and the long-term consequences unwelcomed.

Financial incentives, as well as moral and physical incentives, are tools of coercion. They exist naturally to influence behavior, and are a, if not the, key component to a properly functioning marketplace of both goods and ideas. That said, I don't like the like the idea of government beating a person into submission or morally castigating someone into submission, and so I don't much fancy the idea of government bribing or taxing an individual into submission.

19 comments:

Professor J A Donis said...

I don't agree with the whole education system being supported and practically monopolized by the government. That's probably another discussion forum.

But given the fact that there will be no dissipating of the Dept. of Education, I will tackle this issue concerning paying students.

First, let me state my position. I AM ALL FOR IT! I hope that was clear.

Now for my explanation:
1. We already offer scholarships BASED ON PERFORMANCE. These scholarships come in private and public donations. If it is understood that students can perform at a particular level and be monetarily rewarded for it, then by all means keep paying them so long as it is consensual. This happens with musicians, performing arts students, and student-athletes.

2. I was a recipient of a public donation, and I consensually accepted it. I knew that I had to maintain a particular GPA throughout the year in order to keep the scholarship. I fulfilled my end of things, and so did FSU College of Music.

3. There is no difference whether one is paid in one lump sum, or paid in partial sums. If you want to keep students motivated, take away their means by which they can feed and house themselves, or take away their means by which they buy their toys. Watch them perform better! Also, giving them money every so often, as opposed to once a year, will keep them focused on the ultimate goal.

4. Behavior modification: who says that you can't teach a person morals while paying them for their aptitude? Look at golfers!! Most professional golfers, whether they are 16 or 61, have very high moral standards and high self esteem (there is always a select few who don't fit this profile--John Daly). That's because IT IS IN THE GAME ITSELF to be completely honest, maintain integrity, and never diminish your dignity. The RULES states that as a golfer YOU CALL PENALTIES ON YOURSELF in golf. And they do! When was the last time you saw an offensive tackle say to the referee, "Ref, you should penalize us 10 yards because I held the defensive tackle on his way to sacking the quarterback." NEVER!

4. Paying money for proper execution of intellectual performance is the same as PAYING SOMEONE TO SPREAD KNOWLEDGE--that's exactly what I do. That is, paying students for performing tasks properly is the same when they obtain a job and are paid for performing well on their job.

5. I have talked to students about this before. At first, they were a little apprehensive, but after, they saw the good in it.

I am not promoting the payment of students who ATTEND CLASS. They are SUPPOSE TO BE attending class, this does not deserve any praise. But obtaining an A on a test is not something they are SUPPOSED TO DO, they only really need a C to pass; they went above and beyond expectations by their getting an A.

No payment for those students who come to class on time. Again, THEY ARE SUPPOSED TO COME TO CLASS ON TIME.

Missing classes are only limited to automobile accidents, death in the family, and emergency medical treatment--THAT'S IT! If the students miss any other time, they will begin LOSING money.

I believe that student-athletes should have the choice of studying their sport AS A MAJOR. Musicians do it; dancers do it; actors do it, so then why can't football players study FOOTBALL as a major in which each class studies the different positions (Linebacker 101, Safety 101, Running Back 101, etc.) or even coaching/administrative classes. Kinesiology will also help.

The only problem I see is the fact that some taxpayers may claim that this is unfair treatment to students who are lucky enough to attend a better school--clearly those schools will have a better shot at more money. And those taxpayers would be right; it is their money after all. That's the biggest issue I have with public education--but that's for another forum.

OK, come and get me boyz--and Rebecca (happy b-day, sweetie)!

Professor J A Donis said...

Oops, I have two 4s. Sorry.

Anonymous? said...

My fingers are tired from my last post, but here are two thoughts.

-What makes financial incentives different than other incentives that we all received for good grades?

-I think financially incentivizing a college student is very different than a 4th grader. Their mental capacity, responsibility, and expectation are not the same.

-In college, why do we care if a student misses class for any reason, not just emergencies? Is he there to attend class or to pass the class. If he can do one without the other why does it matter?

Oops, three thoughts. You and I both need remedial math, Professor.

Professor J A Donis said...

Loathsome, if you do not know the difference between a FINANCIAL incentive and other incentives, then give me your biweekly check. You cannot possibly know anything about capitalism and its true wonders.

Statement #2: there is a difference between a college student's knowledge of money and a 4th grader's knowledge. I'll give you that. However, in some cases, even 9-year-olds receive an allowance. And they do understand a lower-level concept of money.

Statement #3 (or the second #2, LOL):
This works well for online students or students in hybrid classes (hybrid is a mix of face-to-face and online course work). But if the money is given on performance based tasks that require his/her physical presence, then he/she must show up. My grades are based on PERFORMANCE only. I do not lower a grade for being absent or late. I don't care if they are absent or late. They just need to perform. I only give them credit for ACTUAL CREATIVE PRODUCTS they produce, not because they are simply conscious and present. However, in my experience, I have seen that students who miss three or more of my classes and/or are consistently late to my class ALMOST ALWAYS fail.

Dr. RosenRosen said...

I think Colson misses a more fundamental issue - as is often the case, he addresses only a symptom (the need to incentivise academic or sexual behavior) while offering no substance with regard to the fundamental problem.

I'd wager that the majority of individuals receiving these incentives aren't the children of his intended audience. Something tells me that his readers are already pretty good in the virtue department and at least make a colorable attempt to pass those virtues on to their kids. On the other hand, I sense that the kids that are candidates for these programs come from backgrounds that are less than ideal - backgrounds where the value of an education or responsible sexual behavior aren't points of emphasis.

My experience with the kids I assume he's talking about is that the incentive to join a gang is frequently far stronger than the incentive to attend school, much less to apply oneself. Heck, the incentive to participate in the gang is even stronger than incentive of staying out of juvie. My experience is also that in many situations there is no family or community or church structure to provide the kind of positive guidance that would reinforce virtuous behavior. In these instances, the options aren't between virtuous and immoral, but more frequently between two equally destructive options.

So, I supposes I should award Colson partial credit - he's right to the extent that ideally we'd all prefer that our children were predisposed to do their homework and not get pregnant (or get someone pregnant) as a high school sophomore. I agree, and I'll do my best to pass virtues along to my kids. But the issue is far more complex and nuanced than simply saying incentives are bad. I'd like to hear Colson's (or Justus' for that matter) substantive thoughts on how to combat poverty and hunger and how to rectify the breakdown of the family unit (both of which I judge as part of the underlying issue) or how to develop the sense of pride and strong work ethic in students coming from an environment where academic success is not only not encouraged, but frequently discouraged.

I would note that Mr. Colson has received an incentive become practice virtue: specifically, his conversion experience immediately followed by his time spent in federal prison. I'm sure his time in the pen reinforced the incentive to act ethically.

Justus Hommes said...

Dr. RosenRosen,

You said:

"My experience with the kids I assume he's talking about is that the incentive to join a gang is frequently far stronger than the incentive to attend school, much less to apply oneself. Heck, the incentive to participate in the gang is even stronger than incentive of staying out of juvie. My experience is also that in many situations there is no family or community or church structure to provide the kind of positive guidance that would reinforce virtuous behavior. In these instances, the options aren't between virtuous and immoral, but more frequently between two equally destructive options."

You seem to be saying that if the social/moral solution is not easy or fast enough, economic warfare (via incentives) is a good solution. I object on several grounds.

First, throwing money at problems has always been popular, but rarely effective.

Second, and related, is that even if throwing money at a problem is beneficial in the short-term, you have created an economic expectation and dependence. Should the payments ever stop, or fail to compete with what the gangs are offering, you have not changed the problem, that of calculators instead of people of character. And for those that made it through school incentivized into action, even if they escape poverty and achieve success, what has been solved besides perhaps better meals and materials. They may have escaped the street gangs only to be lured by the temptation of ponzi schemes, embezzlement, are any type of action that could be more profitable than what can be accomplished virtuously. Acting on condition of financial incentives is how that person has been molded. My position is that regardless of how long the road continues, it is a dead end.

Third, and as a consequence of the above, the truth and love shown by any virtuous teachers, social workers, spiritual figures to these youths is trivialized by financial incentives. As long as virtue and economic gain go hand in hand, virtue is largely irrelevant. And the more society correlates the two, especially under the authority of government, the more people equate the two. I have similar complaints with Laissez Faire Capitalism and Objectevism.

There is no "need", as you put it, for government to financially incentivize behavior, as it solves no problems, and only delays and/or potentially exacerbates them. To draw from another issue, refer back to my posts on gay marriage. The scope of the issue wouldn't even be the scope it is or as problematic if it weren't for all the incentives and benefits granted by government.

Do you want me to offer an easy alternative? I am afraid there is none. The only thing that can solve the problem is for people to hear the still soft voice and the law written on their hearts. Beyond removing the noise of financial incentives, it falls on virtuous people to help create an environment for the advancement of these principles in the heart of those that are poorest and most at risk.

What alternative policies would I recommend? Well to start, I have posted on this blog several articles that show great promise in instances where educational institutions decided to teach children that such things as virtues do exist, and that learning and acting by them can be their own reward. Please see http://wordsseekingjustus.blogspot.com/2009/02/teaching-virtue.html

I don't want to put words in your mouth, but it seems that you underestimate the ability for humans in threatening or undesirable conditions to respond to moral teaching. I disagree completely, and think they are the thirstiest to know and apply truth. After all, it was the rich man that had problems coming to Jesus, not the poor. what was his incentive?

Dr. RosenRosen said...

Justus, I think you may have missed my point, unless you're responding to other posters in the same post that responds to mine. In which case, I'm the one missing the point. Either way, I'll clarify:

First, I agree whole-heartedly with the idea of "give a man a fish, he'll eat for a day; teach a man to fish, he'll eat for a lifetime." But, that doesn't mean I wouldn't give a fish to someone just because they don't know how to fish.

I'm pretty sure I never said or implied that the the government "needs" to do anything. I don't think government programs are the solution to every problem. We agree there.

I also made no value judgment about whether economic incentives are good or bad. But I would agree that we all must guard against the allure of money, and, by extension, programs that encourage acquisitiveness (for both those in poverty and those of great wealth).

With regard to my comments on the incentives to join a gang, that involves a much longer discussion that may not be appropriate at this time. Suffice it to say that my experiences lead to the conclusion that the gang serves as a surrogate family to its members. It teaches discipline and loyalty. There are clearly defined authority figures. It gives support and rewards what it judges to be the correct behavior, while offering consequences for failing to live up to the gang's creed. That sounds somewhat like the family I grew up in, except that gangs happen to be sociopathic. So, in that respect, I stick by my statement that in many cases the incentive to abide by the gang's code is very strong, and for many it is far stronger than to any incentives abide by what we might call a virtuous code. Thus, it could be that for some, simple exposure to moral behavior will not root out the indoctrination one receives on the street. I am reminded of Jesus' instruction that "If any want to become my followers, let them deny themselves and take up their cross and follow me." Or put another way, "deny EVERYTHING and come die with me." If you take Jesus seriously, that's a tall order and it requires what would appear to most to be tremendous sacrifice. The same is true when you're talking about offering virtue as an alternative to the gang or other stimuli. Your citation to the rich young ruler is cogent, but I would observe that he had no problem coming to Jesus. It was the cost of sticking around that was far too much for him to bear. (see the "come die with me" bit above). After all, the rich young ruler was a very righteous man. How much more difficult might it be for some that have never seen the virtuous or ethical modeled for them?

The main thrust of my comment was that it is awful easy for folks like Mr. Colson to rail about the breakdown in puritanical ideals and then rail against programs that, even if imperfect, at least attempt to address the problem. My real problem with Colson's offering is his sanctimony. I find it disingenuous for those with financial resources whose own behavior is motivated, at least in part, by economic concerns (myself included) to say to those with fewer resources that they should set their minds only on things virtuous. Heck, even Jesus fed the hungry crowds. I wasn't there, but I wouldn't be surprised if the prospect of some bread attracted at least a couple folks once word got out about the loaves and fishes.

Finally, I don't underestimate the thirst for virtue or the ability for individuals to overcome their conditions. Frankly, I don't see how you could distill that from my comment above. I think the human spirit is indomitable. But, as Wink and Foster would agree, there are powers at work in social and economic systems that challenge even God's authority, much less the power of an adolescent to choose between right and wrong.

Justus Hommes said...

Dr. RosenRosen,

I apologize. I COMPLETELY misread your comment. In your criticism of Colson, I read a defense of financial incentives that was not there. Sorry.

I still believe what I wrote in the heat of passion in my last comment, but mostly irrelevant to you, so please allow me to start over concerning your points.

First, I don't really have much of a history with Colson, so I took this column at face value, but yes, I could see how his life experiences and positions overall on other matters could highlight a sanctimonious tone in the piece.

Second, I too have experience with the type of youth which form the basis of your concern. I watched helplessly as close and personal friends disappeared from the children's ministry that I lead when I was a teenager. Incredibly smart, funny, and friendly 6 & 7 year old kids would sadly turn into 10 & 11 year olds that had been forced to grow up far too fast and without any positive role models. I saw them get sucked into the vortex of gangs and the drug lifestyle. Even for those that came to church regularly, one day of hugs, songs, and prayers seldom overcame the other six days of their harsh reality.

The problems you pointed out are real, and I share in your judgment of the underlying issues. Gangs offer a pseudo-family environment that lures those without any existing sense of belonging, and they offer, however grim and illegal, a financial hope in the form of organized crime.

So my solution?

While gangs may still get together without the element of criminal/financial enterprise, we tend to call those clubs, so I would propose to undermine the economically first. I would advocate the legalization of drugs and prostitution. Remove the monopoly that gangs and pimps have over these (nefarious) vices, and their economic engine is immediately crippled.

Even if use of drugs and prostitution increases on the margins of "productive" society (and there are enough case studies that is debatable), the majority of people would much prefer ordering their grass and ass online or from the yellow pages from a reputable establishment as opposed to driving to sketchville hoping they survive the trip, don't get ripped off, and don't buy something that kills them.

Then, I would like to see the end of government housing projects, by which I mean entire neighborhoods stretching for blocks that trap thier youth like prisons. Let's agree that the government should provide some form of temporary safety net, I much prefer they receive a credit toward any open market rental. Housing projects are responsible in many ways for fostering the culture of failure that has gripped so many areas.

Also, how about taking all the forces, resources, and attention devoted to the "war on drugs" for the last 25+ years, and start a war on "deadbeat parents." I would have to give the specifics some deeper thought, but stronger enforcement of existing alimony/child support laws would be a good start. I also like the idea of requiring by law that every child have at least 2 guardians at all times. It can be 2 men, 2 women, a mother and grandfather, a father and neighbor, whatever, but every child should have at least 2 people looking after them.

Finally, a big one would be to improve education. This goes beyond instituting virtues programs into schools, although that would be interesting. I am a big believer in school vouchers. Most schools have failed their youth, so let's allow parents to decide where to send their children. And while I am against financial incentives for learning, I am for performance based pay for schools and teachers (there are very important distinctions). Reward those that succeed in teaching the most disadvantaged.

So, in short, I mostly agree with you. And since you asked for my ideas, I am never shy in that regard.

Unknown said...

I generally agree with the quoted author noting that incentives are replacing virtue. To call this "coercion," however, is a stretch.

I also don't believe that financial incentives are inherently bad. From an economic perspective, you can have a commons and the only way that its value is recognized is through incentives. The tricky part is valuing a collective whole (like the environment) that the marketplace (arguably) is unable to value appropriately.

Unknown said...

And, lest my last post suggest otherwise, it's absolutely ridiculous to pay the kids. A positive additional incentive like that, particularly for remedial aid, is ridiculous. I have no problem with the negative reinforcement of punishing them (whatever that may be) for their failure.

Justus Hommes said...

John, I thought about using persuasion instead of coercion, which I believe is more accurate. You are right in that coercion is a stretch, as it implies a lack of other options. Still, the more financially dependent one becomes on incentives, the more limiting their alternative options.

My opposition to financial incentives is not absolute, but they should certainly received more scrutiny, and their dangers/problems held in account.

Dr. RosenRosen said...

John, I think punishment for poor performance accomplishes nothing. I think we're dealing with general apathy towards education and personal behavior. I'm not sure how negative reinforcement does anything to combat apathy.

I think positive reinforcement is always necessary. Not necessarily in monetary form, but in some manner. I don't want to presume too much, but I'd bet that you received some form of positive reinforcement at some point during your education. And if not, then you're a better person than I am. Lord knows I needed positive (and negative) reinforcement for remedial work when it came to Latin. And yet, I remain apathetic towards Latin.

Rebecca said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Rebecca said...

My initial reaction to financial incentives is -- who is going to be paying them? Because if it is the taxpayers, I have a huge problem with that.
(Jose, I was shocked to hear your wholehearted agreement with this issue as it is just another opportuniy for the government to decide what to do with your money. If you want to pay your students for making A's, fine by me.)

Secondly, even if education is becoming more socialized, why are we paying the students to perform better instead of paying more money for competent teachers who will teach better? This is what drives me to the point of outrage. Why are teachers so marginalized in media discussions of improving education?

It seems obvious to me that a passionate, motivated teacher can get results from his/her students far beyond any kind of financial incentive. Why doesn't the government give financial incentive to adults to become those kind of teachers?

It is outrageous that money should be handed out to students BEFORE their teachers are given proper providence.

Rebecca said...

On a different subject: Justus, I enjoyed a moment of enlightenment upon reading your comments.

Legalizing drugs and prostitution is a brillant solution. I love it! Not only does it undermine the criminal element to a huge extent (see the results of prohibition and its subsequent repeal -- I mean, come on, it's not like we don't have a successful precedent to look at)
but it provides more opportunity for free will which I am all for -- it also eliminates a huge chunk of federal/state/local spending -- and ultimately provides opportunity for REALITY to invoke consequences on poor decisions.
I love it!

Plus, government could tax the hell out of it (like they are doing with cigarettes) and it's still an individual CHOICE.

And give the tax money to teachers. :)

Rebecca said...

Another side item: (green beans, not fries) Thanks for the birthday wishes and I did read all comments on the Objectivist post -- loads of fun. The eyelids tatto exchange was funny.

And actually, Loathsome, Rebecca is not my real name. It is a pseudonym for Best Looking and Most Intelligent One In The Family. Also Oldest.

I thought you would have known that. . .

Professor J A Donis said...

Rebecca, reread the very first paragraph of my first entry. It shows my position on government-run education system.

Anonymous? said...

Rebecca, don't think your drugs would be cheaper just because they are legal.

Unknown said...

DRRosen, you are certainly right about apathy, but you don't fix apathy by lowering the bar and paying students. That just creates worse perverse incentives. You also don't lay the groundwork for success by giving false positive reinforcement for what should be considered failures.

We have a rather wimpy education system in this country. The educational culture plays to the lowest common denominator. On the most basic level, we have gotten away from phonetics and went to whole words, which was a disaster. Worse, we treat classic works as written by old white men and no longer force people to study them and many other classic aspects of Western civilization. Most people don't know why we are who we are. Even at the university level, we have engineering classes letting students get by on simplified math rather than having to learn proofs.

So, I will always argue for pushing the individual spirit harder right up to the edge. You learn very little about yourself (and those around you) from conceding at the outet that some things are too hard. And, if someone's self esteem is hurt along the way, so be it. Positive reinforcement should be earned, and we as a society need to embrace that competitive drive toward self-improvement and individuality. To quote a country song, "The Good Lord gave us mountains, so we can learn how to climb."